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Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

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Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

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Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /home/project-web/coolplayer/htdocs/phorum/include/format_functions.php on line 252

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Kernel Streaming
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Kernel Streaming

Posted by Talos_2002 
Kernel Streaming
March 03, 2003 03:14PM
Maybe this has been asked before, so excuse me because I 'm new here.

I think it would be good for Coolplayer having Kernel Streaming. Maybe it could replace DirectSound so the size won't change much.
I believe this could do something to improve Coolplayer's sound quality.

The author of winamp kernel streaming plug-in has publicly available the source code (I have it too), so this might help you.

Roj
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 03, 2003 03:24PM
I'm yet to see Foobar kernel streaming surpass CoolPlayer .wav output so...



____
Roj

"Faith manages."
- jms
Roj
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 03, 2003 03:27PM
Addendum:

Make that anything Winamp or Foobar related.



____
Roj

"Faith manages."
- jms
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 03, 2003 05:08PM
Please correct me if I am wrong.....

Kernel streaming - The idea seems to be to bypass the windows driver system which seems to limit the quality of the output to 16bits/sample for just about every card that I have - hmmmm, sounds interesting as both OGG and MAD can decode/dither to a higher bit depth than 16

It sounds like it'll only be worthwile if;
1) there are some common cards that support higher bit depths
2) you don't have to be superhuman to hear the difference
3) It's not going to to be prone to kernel-traps (especially as Opera seems to loose all my emails every time by box dies!!!!)

I do not suspect that it'll add much to the bulk of CoolPlayer so send on over any code/information that you may have. Also, if you have any code to "probe" the best caps of my hardware I'll be even more interested ))

Marcus.

PS - The new OGG tagging code is complete now - but it's *very* early days and may have bugs that may mess up your OGG files. If anybody (brave) wants to help to test this release then please email me directly and I'll send you a version over.
Roj
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 03, 2003 06:53PM
Some cards with high bit depths *cough*Audigy2*cough* actually *need* it to sound as good as other cards with a lower bit depth.

<chuckle>



____
Roj

&quot;Faith manages.&quot;
- jms
Roj
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 03, 2003 07:34PM
Marcus:

A question - is the next release also a major bug stomp of all the niggling interface bugs too? Like the playlist not coming back if you close it on the Taskbar / shuffle not working properly / adding files via Explorer not working properly stuff?



____
Roj

&quot;Faith manages.&quot;
- jms
Roj
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 03, 2003 08:30PM
"I'm yet to see Foobar kernel streaming surpass CoolPlayer .wav output so..."

Further clarification on the above (never write a post after just coming in out of -40C temperatures):

I'm yet to see Foobar kernel streaming offer any audio quality advantages over CoolPlayer AC97 output via the Cooler Wave Mapper. Then again, I have a sound card which has drivers well tuned for audio quality.



____
Roj

&quot;Faith manages.&quot;
- jms
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 03, 2003 09:49PM
From the changelog (preliminary)

Version 211 (experimental)
+ OGG files now use OGG tags (no more ID3v2 for OGG files)
+ Fixed "Allow only once in playlist" sometimes not working
+ Fixed occasional problems with initial playlist not loading correctly
+ Fixed calling "CLOSE" from the system menu - making the Playlist window die forever
+ Fixed bug introduced in 210 that stopped streaming working
+ Added status area to the playlist (shows tagging progress)
+ Fixed file-rename not working on files with illegal chars in them (like : and / and \)
I also plan to add play times to that new status bar.

I have not managed (so far) to repeat the crash from adding a file from exploer - but if anybody can help there I would be most grateful.

Also, some people are getting AVs during startup - again if anybody can help to get to the bottom of why this may be then please muck in (if you'll excuse the expression!!)

Marcus
Roj
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 04, 2003 03:05AM
Thanks very much for the head's up. smiling smiley



____
Roj

&quot;Faith manages.&quot;
- jms
WiNC
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 09, 2003 06:28AM
Roj,

Don't you hate it when someone with a NON Audigy 2 card who has 24bit/96KHz sees comments like yours.

I mean - 24Bit/96KHz is a good plus for those of us who do have cards which are not Audigy but still have the higher bitrate and sample rates.

My Delta 410 doesn't need the higher rate, but you can hear a difference. I'm sorry to say - right now - in my opinion - Coolplayer suffers because it doesn't offer the 24bit/96KHz that Foobar offers (or Winamp2).

However, - I also don't use Kernal Streaming which in my opinion suffers some pretty nasty popping and clipping from time to time for no reason. I use ASIO drivers which are really good quality.

I left Coolplayer mainly because of the limitation of 24/96 - when it gets it again - I will come back. It seems a little strange to me that even though MAD engine offers it... you would leave 24Bit out.

Regards
WiNC
WiNC
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 09, 2003 10:33PM
The problem is it doesn't produce the same quality Roj - I honestly can't see how you think it does... smiling smiley

When you play with CoolPlayer the higher Frequencys are a lot more muffled, however when playing with ASIO they are not. Now... I'm not saying Kernal Streaming is all that great - I think that has a long way to go - but I do think something like ASIO support, or Kernal Streaming in Coolplayer will help improve sound quality.

I'm going by what I hear and what I like - I am not testing it with equipment etc, but just with people listening to the quality. In tests I have done (with about 10 people) people have liked the ASIO quality far more than CoolPlayer by itself.

Maybe some of the information about 24/96 is hype - I don't disagree there - it isn't a magic bullet that makes you feel like you are in a live concert. However, it does give you more head home, it does improve freqency response, and with good speakers you get a audioitable difference.

Again - I'm not saying Coolplayer sucks - and for 16bit cards there is nothing better than Coolplayer. However, without a 24/96 option - it is being left behind and hurting itself because it isn't offering.

Remember Roj - I'm not using a Audigy 2... I'm using a damn good soundcard, which is designed for high quality audio recording and playback. So accusing me (And some others) of having baddily written drivers - just because you think you have "gods" soundcard - I'm sorry that is kinda pigheaded of you my friend.

The M-Audio Delta 410 has extremely well written drivers, and produces extremely high quality sound... even compared to a TurtleBeach (in fact I will argue better).

Again - yes - you are correct - Foobar and WinAmp2 do suffer problems - also Kernal Streaming is pointless for 16bit cards - you can get the same affect you can get with Coolplayer without Kernal Streaming. BUT - for 24/96 there is a difference avoiding the KMixer... even with their improvements in SR3 for Win2K and SR1 for WinXP.

WiNC
Roj
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 10, 2003 03:03AM
I call 'em as I hear 'em - I always have and always will.

I too can produce people who prefer the sound of CoolPlayer and who will say (as I do) that Foobar is artificially bright, even harsh. That brightness becomes even more aparrent when one uses a more linear set of speakers such as the Monsoons or a set of cans - which don't need artifical brightening to over come speaker shortcomings to produce clear and crisp highs.

YMMV.

My statements stand.



____
Roj

&quot;Faith manages.&quot;
- jms
Roj
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 10, 2003 03:08AM
Addendum:

It is quite possible that kernel streaming may offer real advantages for musical playback. However the current flawed implementations you iterate fall short for the reasons I outlined in my last post (artificial brightness, etc.).

Perhaps when someone else manages to do it right...



____
Roj

&quot;Faith manages.&quot;
- jms
WiNC
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 10, 2003 04:37AM
The point here is that Kernel Streaming might offer some advantages - but Kernal Streaming has proven pretty faulty and unrealiable across different sound cards... I know I have problems with Kernel Streaming, while some others I know haven't.

IF there was going to be the option of 24/96 in Coolplayer I would personally like to see HARD CODED into Coolplayer a Steinberg ASIO 2 driver, which is based on the Steinberg Technology Standards. Without such, Coolplayer will not be able to preform to the standard that we expect from the program.

Kernal Streaming is pointless for 16/44 cards anyway - I mean - honestly - what benefit do you get out of missing the KMixer - you only have a 16bit card!! And personally if you have bought at 24/96 (or higher) card that doesn't have ASIO... demand your money back.

I agree with Roj that Foobar (by itself) sucks - PP isn't a great coder of Audio drivers, and I have never really liked his stuff. However, ASIO drivers to make a difference, especially in the high rates...

So - Not sure if Roj agrees with me... but personally - I hope for the following

1) Kernal Streaming is NOT implementated... it isn't stable, and has different issues with different cards
2) ASIO is Hard coded into Coolplayer (not a plugin) and hopefully written by the wonderful programmers who made Coolplayer such a hit at 16/44 smiling smiley

If that happens - and happens well - I personally will burn Foobar again (and ASIO Plugins) and start using Coolplayer on my 24/96 system again smiling smiley

WiNC

--------
M-Audio Delta 410
Roj
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 10, 2003 04:53AM
"1) Kernal Streaming is NOT implementated... it isn't stable, and has different issues with different cards
2) ASIO is Hard coded into Coolplayer (not a plugin) and hopefully written by the wonderful programmers who made Coolplayer such a hit at 16/44 smiling smiley"

You've got my vote on both.

I would futher iterate that the current prevailing myth in some quarters that FB2k sounds better on quality sound cards with quality DACs while MAD improves the sound on mediocre sound cards is pure and utter rubbish. I personally find MAD to universally improve audio quality on whatever sound card it is used with and FB2K to produce artificially (some might even say harsh) highs in similar fashion. While this may appeal to treble junkies or folks whose systems are lacking in the highs department, linear quality sound it most assuredly is NOT.

As such I concur wholeheartedly with your assessment on the previous and current coding efforts of the FB2K author.



____
Roj

&quot;Faith manages.&quot;
- jms
mr. mr
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 10, 2003 05:04PM
Well with KS or ASIO out you can get bit identical stream output (which might not be possible with DS output) on certain cards, so there definitely is use for those, even for "only" 16/44 cards
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 12, 2003 01:08PM
Ok, I accept that KS is not implemented well yet and has problems with some cards.

This doesn't mean that there is no way to make a good use of it.
"Perhaps when someone else manages to do it right..."
Why not that someone be the CoolPlayer team programmers?
As Roj has said:
"The added advantage of course is that if it is done by this team, the likelihood is far greater that it will be done right. smiling smiley"


I think that KS is preferable because most cards have not ASIO2 support and some of those having, use ASIO implementaion is their own and not the standard.

Are you sure that on those cards that have problems with KS, they aren't caused by their drivers?
Roj
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 12, 2003 01:53PM
The problems with hacks are that:

a) they are inherently unstable

b) they may not be viable in future versions of the OS.

Application programmers have been cut off at the knees with this sort of nonsense since time immemorial - they cut corners or use a wrinkle of the OS to enhance their apps, a new version of the OS comes out with that loophole plugged and they're SOL. It's *FAR* better (and more intelligent) to stick with the established APIs and standards as you can see (this is a basic tenet of Open Source) - the other kind of foolishness never works over the long term and ends up wasting everyone's time.

I don't know if the problems with KS are caused by drivers or not, nor do I care. If I were a programmer, I'd have a lot better things to do with my time than play bug-hunt-and-plug for every vendor driver loophole - it's just not a practical solution. Indeed this is why there are established standards and APIs to follow - as I said, it prevents time being wasted on such a pointless endeavor.

Based on the above, no there is no really viable long-term way to make use of it - it's a kludge, a band aid (and a poor one at that) that is best addressed in other ways (ASIO). For the record, I happen to own sound cards that don't have ASIO drivers - my next one likely will although it's entirely possible that the next version of the OS may address the issue and render it moot (who knows). In any event, when upgrade time comes I'll thoroughly research the options before laying down my cash as I always do - I'd strongly advise others to do the same. smiling smiley



____
Roj

&quot;Faith manages.&quot;
- jms
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 13, 2003 12:02PM
This Roj guy is dangerous; opinionated but with very little practical knowledge. KS is an integral part of XP as designed and coded by M$. Also his posting indicate a clear and utter lack of understanding as to what KS is and does. To infer that FB2K sounds anything less than stellar indicates to me he is using an outdated sound card such as a SC or Audigy. Or he just plain hasn't a clue what to listen for.
Roj
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 13, 2003 01:55PM
As I have pointed out (as has WiNC) , you have two choices:

1) Follow the Windows API and go the kmixer route

2) Follow the ASIO API and bypass kmixer

In either case, you use stadanrd APIs and don't exploit any wrinkles in the OS.

'nuff said.

As to ears and outdated equipment, YMMV - mine certainly does. You may now troll elsewhere.



____
Roj

&quot;Faith manages.&quot;
- jms
unf
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 13, 2003 08:36PM
That post is written by something that is so stupid, if I took its tiny brain and rolled it down the edge of a razor blade, it would be like a lone car going down a six lane highway. How about putting that into proper syntax, form, and grammar so that I can at least understand what you are saying before I dismiss it?

You would be out of your depth in a parking lot puddle. Clearly, the full area of your ignorance is not yet mapped. We are presently only exploring the fringes of that vast expanse. A long period of non-posting would be most welcome on your part. As Abba Eban so aptly said: "His ignorance is encyclopedic."

Calling you dull is a gross underestimation of just how tedious you are. You have the personality of a damp sponge and the appeal of a moldy sweat sock. If you called the Suicide Hotline, they'd say: "Go ahead. Do it!" Maybe you wouldn't read like such a pathetic loser if you weren't intellectually slower than a herd of turtles stampeding through a vat of chunky peanut butter; if your weren't so fat that a "Place Your Billboard Ad Here" is printed on each of your butt cheeks, or if you didn't have a face so ugly that your mom had to get well-and-truly drunk before she could breast feed you. Nah, of course you would.

In closing, why don't you put your glasses on backwards and walk into yourself?
WiNC
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 16, 2003 11:34PM
Okay having a HIGH END soundcard, a SBLive, a Fortissimo 3, and now a DMX6 FIRE (which by the way I'm disappointed in very much so), I can tell you that the reason I'm not supporting Kernal Streaming is that Kernal Streaming isn't very well supported by ALL cards.

In fact, I know that it isn't very well supported by windows either, since I also know people who work on the Multimedia controls in Windows 2000 and Windows XP.

Since I also use other programs that use Kernal Streaming (for example SONAR) I can say that it can be made to work, but once again, depending on the sound card depends on how good it works.

Secondly your drivers DO need some form of Kernal Streaming capablity, if they don't - then Kernal Streaming won't even show up. For example - for some reason Kernal Streaming on the DMX6 FIRE doesn't seem to want to appear, and I have tried three computers now.

So That is why I personally don't want the programmers to bother with Kernal Streaming.

ASIO is far better - why? Because most computer cards coming out for the last years support ASIO. Any 24/96 + card should support ASIO. ASIO bypasses KMixer, and isn't even controlled by Windows, it is controlled and managed by the cards drivers directly.

There is certainly a audidable difference when you use the ASIO drivers away from the KMixer, main reason being is that the bass and highs do improve.

Now... FB2K has issues - anyone who uses FB2K knows this, and also knows that it is at the beginning stages. The original coding for audio management in FB2K isn't very nice, and I certainly don't like the DirectSound in that compared to Coolplayer.

I will say however, that using ASIO (and even Kernal Streaming on cards it works on) does sound good. But with Kernal Streaming there does appear to be a slighty brighter high.

But - the thing is - CoolPlayer on my Delta 410 sounds muffled, very muffled in places. Even with much that I have written myself and brunt at 96KHz sounds very muffled. Now, I believe that is because I have got used to 24/96 which I can get out of WinAmp 2 (with certain plugins) and FB2K.

If CoolPlayer added ASIO (and 24/96), I am sure as hell hopefully coming back to Coolplayer.

I am writing a article for VIA, based around the Delta - and in my third week I'm talking about setting up DVD, MP3/CD, and Games on the card. Needless to say, my options for 24/96 playback in the MP3/CD world is extremely limited. In fact, so far I have only been able to find WinAmp2, and FB2K. People want 24/96 - people want good 24/96 implementation.

I have to agree with Roj, that so far what we have in the 24/96 hasn't been implementated 100% correctly. But - at least it is moving forward, and learning.

I'm sorry - CoolPlayer hasn't really updated any of its audio control for a very long time, and unless it does, CoolPlayer will die out with the introduction of cheaper, and better quality soundcards on the market, and FB2K, and WinAMP2 plugin programmers work hard at trying to improve their offerings.

---------------
Off topic note to UNF:

Unf - if you can't add ideas, and information regarding the topic - why don't you just STFU. After all, most of these conversations have been on the topic at hand. Roj and everyone else has a right to offer their suggestions regarding the topic. Instead you offer your opinions on the people, or persons. So why don't you stop it, and grow up.

WiNC
Re: Kernel Streaming
March 17, 2003 12:21AM
For the record... BEFORE there is any more Roj bashing... you can turn your bashing to me. It was through a long conversation with ME that I informed Roj that KS was a hack.

Now I have reasons for this - and I will point them out as soon as I have found my bloody documents and links which shows why Windows used a "hack" to get past the general WDM restrictions of being forced through KMixer.

Now - I know a **** load more about programming now, and about driver contruction, soooo - since my information was way back when Cakewalk first introduced Kernal Streaming, I might have 1) Been told incorrectly then 2) Just have misunderstood what I was informed.

However - I am trying to find the information I had read about KS and how it was implementated, and used. I should have some links or at least copy and pastes soon if I can find the bloody thing.

What I ask however is - if you have a problem with Roj because of the Hack statement... take it out on me. Roj trusts me, and on this one I might have dropped the ball in regards to Windows Operating system and KS.

However, there is two things I am damn sure of, and if you want to prove me wrong - you can bloody look for it (because I already have).

1) KS requires good implementation in the Hardware drivers... without this, KS doesn't work, or works poorly.

2) KS doesn't work in a lot of cases by some software just because it hasn't been implementated correctly. However, this problem is increased when certain implementations of KS work on some cards, but not others. It is an extremely hard thing to implement correctly, and I'm sorry - FB2K continues to prove that it doesn't do this correctly either.

3) ASIO is becoming extremely supported by newer cards - it is now cheap enough to by an ASIO card. Even Audigy 2 ASIO is better than DirectSound, and in my opinion is better than KS in sound quality. But that is my opinion.
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